Talk:Weapons for Street Fighting

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===Dry Ice=== Dry ice when mixed with water sublimates rapidly into carbon dioxide, if you do this in a chamber it can create a lot of pressure. Stuff a load of dry ice into the back of the spud gun described above and pour water in, if you're putting spuds in when 'live', be careful of it detonating early. This can also be used as a gas source for the compressed air gun described above.

I see something useful here if you were to put a valve or something and a pressure chamber, make some edits or better yet pix.

Done. Scavenger 17:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Contents 1 Glass 2 Think about it 2.1 Bug Spray 2.2 Brass Knuckles 2.3 Aircraft Paint Stripper 2.4 Flamethrower 2.5 Swords 2.6 Improvised stuff 3 lame and irresponsible

[edit] Glass

Hey, i have a piece of broken glass on my desk and i was thinking, how difficult would this be to turn into a knife, i mean, it can probably be sharpend, although i don't know what with, it is pointy and glass is VERY easy to get, just smash a window or bus stop or something, glass knives would make cheap, easy weapons, so does anyone have any idea, ideas, links, anything,

thanks y0nd3rb0y

Two possibilities I can think of: 1) Wrap cloth/leather around the non-pointy end for a handle (needs a relatively long piece to work) or 2) use other pieces of glass/rock to make a rough, chipped-edge knife (similar to ancient stone knives used all around the world). Also, You may not want to use car window glass. I don't know about buses, but lots of car windows are treated to break into dull, small pieces (spider-webbing) and you should only have to break one window. My recommendation: find a glass recycling plant. Zeerahks

[edit] Think about it

ok let this stay in talk and people can look it up here, excessive brutality sreves us no purpose, others can revert if there is a real desire.

Where would this be in the book? I guess I would say put it in a part of the article itself titled "Excessively Dangerous Weapons" or some such thing. The knowledge goes to waste if people can't read it. Zeerahks

[edit] Bug Spray

A can of bug spray (specifically something akin to this BlackFlag) product used like mace (but this is a sprayed acid and will disfigure someone immediately.)

• above is incorrect

is a insanely potent defensive and/or offensive weapon. You can easily obtain it and it works at range of ten feet or so. To practice, get a can and shoot at a sweatshirt on a clothes line.  !!WARNING!! many bug sprays contain organophosphates a deadly chemical similar to nerve gas in action, even though this usually doesn't poison someone instantly you might go down for use of a weapon of mass destruction and attempted murder.

[edit] Brass Knuckles

Add to your pig punching power with a nice pair of brass knuckles. Get them in the face, and it will tear some of the flesh in his face away. As well as it could easily disorient them for a little while.

[edit] Aircraft Paint Stripper

This can be bought at almost all car parts stores comes in a spray can or in gallon jugs cost about 9 bucks a can and will eat the paint or flesh off just about anything. DO NOT allow this stuff to get on the gun itself, as it dissolves PVC plastic even faster than it does paint!

[edit] Flamethrower

This is a classic, but very effective and intimidation weapon. It probably won't do much good against a person except scaring the shit out of them since you'd have to be rather close to use it well, but it is a useful tool for igniting anything flammable. The larger model described is very dangerous for both user and target.

Materials:

• Can of aerosol spray (anything with a high alcohol or volatile hydrocarbon content)
• Trigger type lighter
• Gun sprayer adaptor for spray paint
• Brass tube 4-5 in long (to use as the spray tube)
• Cotton ball or shoe lace

Snap the can into your trigger gadget, now you have a handy pistol grip and easy to control trigger, stick the brass tube into the end of the nozzle and put a cotton ball on the end of the tube. To use this weapon, spray a quick shot to wet the cotton ball. Light the cotton ball, and spray a puff of the spray. If everything goes well, you should have just launched a rather large fireball, the cotton ball willburn for a minute or two lighting the spray as you fire. Another alternative to pressurized aerosol cans is to make the real thing, one can use a pump-action sprayer like a garden mister. Simply press the trigger once per fireball. A thickened fuel like 50/50 diesel gasoline will work better for igniting materiel even better is to dissolve styrfoam into the gasoline making it sticky. This is the cruelest weapon to use against a human causing massive deadly painful burns, only use to destroy things.

These devices if used in an non-agricultural or forest firefighting role are classed as destructive devices and are regulated by the BATF.

[edit] Swords

A sword is only good for deadly attacks and the occasional "dis-arming"... Open swing space is required so use in crowds is out, unskilled attackers have a very high risk of serious self inflicted injury. They have almost no utility in a street confrontation other than terror.

[edit] Improvised stuff

As a weapon bicycle chain jewelery is sometimes mentioned. People have taken a 1-2ft long section of bike chain and turned it into a pretty sweet looking necklace with the help of a wire hanger with the intention of using it as a backup weapon. Flexible chains and such are very difficult to control in a fight and are mostly an expedient weapon for scaring off enemies. We have also heard of those who attempt the spiked necklace look with a segment of a chainsaw blade, very dangerous, odds are you might slit your own throat or snag it in your enemy loosing your weapon and part of your hand. The third item that we have seen is a CB radio antenna. [The 6ft long metal rods you see undulating on top of Ford 4-doors and the like] Cut down to a 2-3 ft length, sharpened and fitted with a tape grip you have what is described by the user as a fencing saber that he can secret in a number of handy places. The downside is that cops can, and will, identify it as a concealed deadly weapon and if you use it it will not quickly stop an attacker who may not even notice a full depth puncture immediately but it can be deadly giving the police good cause to charge you with attempted murder if it is ever used.

[edit] lame and irresponsible

Suggesting the use of paintball guns, lethal or otherwise, is lame and irresponsible. Cops shoot people for pulling out their wallets, for fuck sake! You point a paintball gun at a cop, and they will kill you. If it comes to it, and I've decided I need to risk my life and kill people, I'd be a fucking moron to use anything less than a real goddam firearm - they aren't hard to get. Please rethink this crap. Doctormatt 11:34, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

The problem is that some of us can't get a hold of guns. Also, sometimes you don't want to kill a cop, you just want them down and out. Also, spraypaint? TO use spraypaint you have to be pretty damn close to a cop; paintball guns would work better for rendering a facemask unusable. -- Zeerahks

Tell me more, Zeerahks. When did you want a cop "down and out"? And what did you do to achieve this? Did you use a paintgun? And who are these "some of us" who can't "get a hold of guns"? I suggest that if you can't get guns, you've got more problems with your revolution than simple access to firearms. In particular, you don't have enough mass support for it to begin with. Get the people behind you, and they will bring their guns (and love, knowledge, etc.). Doctormatt 13:20, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

If you knock out a cop instead of killing him, you don't have to chance of murder charges if you're caught. Also, the ones who can't/won't get a hold of guns are those of us who are under 21, have not-hunting parents, and who don't really feel the need to kill a cop if you can incapacitate him. also, If I tried hard enough I know for a fact I could get a gun (most likely illegally) but what's the point. If I'm in a black bloc and the cops are coming at us, it makes no difference whether we hurt the cops or kill the cops, as long as they can't hurt/kill us. Now, I'm a militant, I'll admit it, but if you kill a cop, they rest will just fight harder, whereas if you can hurt a cop, the psychological effect is there. Cops function under the belief that civilians don't fight back. If you do fight back, and show that you can hurt them, they will get scared.

Also, potato guns are worse than paintball guns. Why aren't you against them. I've built a potato gun and I'm sure other people on this project have too. When a cop sees the flame coming out the end of a potato gun, do you think he's going to use a club instead of a gun? I wish! He'll whip that motherfucker out so fast you won't see his hands! -- Zeerahks

I don't think you read what I wrote. It doesn't matter whether you personally can get a gun. Guns will come with the people. The key job of the revolutionary is to get people behind the revolution: they will bring guns, as needed.

As for cops "getting scared", all that means is that they will bring more weapons against you, weapons that you cannot possibly resist in a little paintball gun-armed "black bloc".

Yeah, potato guns are stupid, too. We should remove stupid suggestions from this handbook. Doctormatt 14:14, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

You do realize that some people would argue that this entire project is "stupid"? SOme people would argue that dumpster-diving, hitchhiking, etc. are stupid. Does that stop us? Are we going to stop hitchiking and dumpster-diving and go back to a suburban home and a 9-to-5 job because they say what we're doing is stupid? Also, if people want to fight back, but can't get guns (age, money, etc.), what are they supposed to do? That isn't a rhetorical question: if you have an answer, please give it. Also, don't underestimate the power of a paintball gun. Have you ever played? -- Zeerahks

Recommending that people do things that risk their own lives is bad (i.e., stupid), unless there is a sufficient probability of a sufficently large payoff.

How do you fight back without a gun? You fight back by thinking, learning, teaching, sharing, loving, creating, speaking out whenever possible against oppression, having a spine, standing up for what you believe is right, organizing, etc. If a gun is all there is between you, alone, and the full power of the state...then you will die. Revolution must be a mass movement or it will fail. A few people with guns (even the mighty paintball gun) will not do it.

Yes, paintball guns can hurt people quite seriously, and I imagine they can kill if the balls are frozen. Great. But I think discussions of weapons is putting the cart way ahead of the horse, and suggesting that people shoot cops with paintball guns is flat out ignorant.

And "they" aren't saying things are stupid, I am. If this project does not show that it has the well-being of our like-minded brothers and sisters as first priority, then this is all crap. Recommending needlessly risky actions does not help. Doctormatt 17:11, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

Ok, I agree: physically fighting should be close to a last resort. But even though it's a last resort, shouldn't we include it anyway? -- Zeerahks

The way I look it is this: I am providing information for the sake of allowing free access to information -- what a person chooses to do with that information is not my responsibility. If they wish to abuse a piece of knowledge that I have given them, it is their fault, not my own. The things that Hoffman suggested often carried a significant risk of punishment (or injury) -- yet they were provided so that, should one wish to know, he can have access to the material. -- root

I think we should take responsibility for the use of the information here, at least in the sense that we should be providing suggestions for what to do, not just a laundry of things that might be done, especially risky things that just sound "good" on paper but have not actually been used by the writer. I don't think a list of lethal weapons (why stop at paintball guns? pitchforks? pointed sticks? well-placed banana peels?) is very helpful, since people already know what's lethal (yes, every paintballer knows frozen paintballs can kill), and it takes away from the real tasks at hand. By just adding any old thing, we are also setting a bad example for those that come later as this project grows. And, to quote myself, "if this project does not show that it has the well-being of our like-minded brothers and sisters as first priority, then this is all crap". Seriously. Doctormatt 20:08, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

p.s. if you put four tildes (~) at the end of your comments, they get automatically stamped with your user name and time. Saves an edit. Doctormatt 20:10, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

I must agree with Root. Who in their right mind is going to use a boomerang against a cop? Yet it's still included as an option. Also, I'm not using four tildes because I don't have enough time to log in on the public computer I'm using. -- Zeerahks

I thought long and hard as to whether I should include the bit about using paintball guns as a lethal weapon. In the end, I came to this conclusion: I wouldn't advise it, yet if someone needs a weapon (for whatever reason), this is a way to make one. Root 14:17, 23 March 2007 (MDT)

My main reason for including paintball guns was as an alternative to spraypaint, offering a longer-range option for the same effect. -- Zeerahks

i think it's valid information. it's not implying that we recommend it, in fact, we've expressed that we dont condone any illegal activities, but we must be aware that today's state of things does not necessary predict tomorrow's state of things, and there is no reason to presume that tomorrow's riot police will be more reasonable that today's riot police. it's simply information, and information is not a crime, and as long as we are very deliberate about how we frame this material, i believe we can responsibly distribute information that is at different points reasonable, unreasonable, last-resort, tinged with cynicism, framed with humor, aware of inherent injustices, and appreciative of the most outwardly revolutionary beliefs as well as the most subtle revolutionary beliefs. the discussion itself proves out, in many ways, the level of responsibility that we're all bringing to this, and i dont mean my input here to be anything but another voice, so by all means lets keep discussing this, and it's very likely that we just havent arrived at the best wording yet, so lets keep at it. firsty 09:51, 27 March 2007 (MDT)

........ We have Zip Guns on here for a reason, y'know, for those that can't eta gun....--Actafool 22:57, 21 October 2009 (UTC)